Date: Wed, 20 Jan 93 18:49:45 CST From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu Reply-To: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (Kraftwerk) Subject: Kraftwerk Digest V1 #1 Kraftwerk Digest Wed, 20 Jan 93 Volume 1 : Issue 1 Today's Topics: Electric Music/LFO foo Karl Bartos - new CD released. (Review!) Karl Bartos new CD release (Review) Kraftwerk discography available? (2 msgs) KW article, KW 'zine Name for group Name for the group Radio-activity ? the KW list (8 msgs) Trolling the waters for interest in Kraftwerk Mailing list ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1993 15:21:26 GMT+0100 From: kraftwerk (kraftwerk mailing list) Subject: Electric Music/LFO To: kraftwerk Really-From: Jose Garcia Some time ago an EP was going to be released, with music by the Bartos-Flur band Electric Music plus a band called LFO. Its title was going to be "Information". Has this been released? Jose Garcia pepeg@ctivax.uab.es ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1993 18:51:49 -0600 From: kraftwerk (kraftwerk mailing list) Subject: foo To: kraftwerk Really-From: David Datta bar ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Jan 93 23:49:37 MET From: kraftwerk (kraftwerk mailing list) Subject: Karl Bartos - new CD released. (Review!) To: kraftwerk Really-From: lupo@pool.informatik.rwth-aachen.de Review: (already posted to rec.music.industrial) Electric Music - Crosstalk (CD), SPV, 1992 Crosstalk 3:33 Intercomix 4:08 Baby come back 4:14 As the most of you know: Kraftwerk is now only Florian Schneider and Ralf Huetter. Karl Bartos and Wolfgang Fluer left the Group some time ago. This Record was produced & written by Karl Bartos doing his new Project called "Electric Music". I don't know anything about EM, all I got is this CD. If anybody has got some facts about Bartos's new project, please mail them on Kraftwerk mailing. Now to the record itself: It is very short - so it's cheap also. (~13.00 DM) The first time of listening I was puzzeled because the sound is so different to what I expected. There are MANY old Kraftwerk instruments/samples in it. Voice is almost Computer-Voice only (Like the one you know from Kraftwerk "The Mix"). I wonder if Bartos has the Copyright for all that Kraftwerk stuff. The style is quite a mixture of "Electric Cafe", "Radio Activity" and a pretty big amount of own style. It has a quite good Rythm but different to "The Mix" - and you can't dance to it too. "Baby come back" is the "Reggae" song by E.Grant. This one is a parody - with computer voice but fun to listen to. I can really tell that I had to grow on the record. I listened to it ~20 times and start to like it. I like the 3 tracks because its an alternative way to develope the Kraftwerk idea of music (I personally don't like "The Mix" too much - though I did like the concert). By the way - anybody's been on KW 1991 tour too ? Did you like it ? Conclusion: I don't know how to rate this one. All I can say: It's surely not a must have. I'd rather suggest purchase if you are a collector or Kraftwerk-maniac. But you should watch out for Electric Music in the future. Some facts: Track 1 & 2 written by "Bartos/Bartos - Manteuffel - Schult" Produced by Karl Bartos. Recorded in Cologne (my hometown). Cover Art: Emil Schult. (The cover quite remembers me of the "Autobahn" one) The CD is LIMITED !! (Mine is 5000/3914) So it might be hard to get it outside of Germania. The Label is SPV. Number is SPV 056-110363. Have fun. (Please mail further requests directly to me) Lutz Bauer, lupo@pool.informatik.rwth-aachen.de "Musik als Traeger von Ideen" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Jan 93 23:32:48 MET From: kraftwerk (kraftwerk mailing list) Subject: Karl Bartos new CD release (Review) To: kraftwerk Really-From: lupo@pool.informatik.rwth-aachen.de Review: (already posted to alt.rec.music.industrial) Electric Music - Crosstalk (CD), SPV, 1992 Crosstalk 3:33 Intercomix 4:08 Baby come back 4:14 As the most of you know: Kraftwerk is now only Florian Schneider and Ralf Huetter. Karl Bartos and Wolfgang Fluer left the Group some time ago. This Record was produced & written by Karl Bartos doing his new Project called "Electric Music". I don't know anything about EM, all I got is this CD. If anybody has got some facts about Bartos's new project, please mail them on Kraftwerk mailing. Now to the record itself: It is very short - so it's cheap also. (~13.00 DM) The first time of listening I was puzzeled because the sound is so different to what I expected. There are MANY old Kraftwerk instruments/samples in it. Voice is almost Computer-Voice only (Like the one you know from Kraftwerk "The Mix"). I wonder if Bartos has the Copyright for all that Kraftwerk stuff. The style is quite a mixture of "Electric Cafe", "Radio Activity" and a pretty big amount of own style. It has a quite good Rythm but different to "The Mix" - and you can't dance to it too. "Baby come back" is the "Reggae" song by E.Grant. This one is a parody - with computer voice but fun to listen to. I can really tell that I had to grow on the record. I listened to it ~20 times and start to like it. I like the 3 tracks because its an alternative way to develope the Kraftwerk idea of music (I personally don't like "The Mix" too much - though I did like the concert). By the way - anybody's been on KW 1991 tour too ? Did you like it ? Conclusion: I don't know how to rate this one. All I can say: It's surely not a must have. I'd rather suggest purchase if you are a collector or Kraftwerk-maniac. But you should watch out for Electric Music in the future. Some facts: Track 1 & 2 written by "Bartos/Bartos - Manteuffel - Schult" Produced by Karl Bartos. Recorded in Cologne (my hometown). Cover Art: Emil Schult. (The cover quite remembers me of the "Autobahn" one) The CD is LIMITED !! (Mine is 5000/3914) So it might be hard to get it outside of Germania. The Label is SPV. Number is SPV 056-110363. Have fun. (Please mail further requests directly to me) Lutz Bauer, lupo@pool.informatik.rwth-aachen.de "Musik als Tra"ger von Ideen" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Jan 93 19:47:55 EST From: kraftwerk (kraftwerk mailing list) Subject: Kraftwerk discography available? To: kraftwerk Really-From: Eric Is there a Kraftwerk discography available via ftp? If not, could someone email me a copy or post it to the list? If there is no discography, then I just might start one. [:-] Thanks --Eric eiverso@cms.cc.wayne.edu "I'm the Inman And I'm keen Detroit, Michigan USA I've a mind Like a machine" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1993 23:04:10 -0600 From: kraftwerk (kraftwerk mailing list) Subject: Kraftwerk discography available? To: kraftwerk Really-From: datta (David Datta) } Really-From: Eric } Is there a Kraftwerk discography available via ftp? There certainly is: ftp.uwp.edu:/pub/music/discog/k/kraftwerk I will mail it to anyone who cannot ftp.... -- -Dave datta@cs.uwp.edu "Such abuse would be illegal and is therefore unlikely." - FBI Director William Sessions ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1993 12:15:29 GMT+0100 From: kraftwerk (kraftwerk mailing list) Subject: KW article, KW 'zine To: kraftwerk Really-From: Jose Garcia For those of you able to pick the Music Technology magazine, published in UK, get the December issue! There's a KW colour pic. on the cover plus a nice article on KW, with an interesting interview with Ralph. There's also a fanzine made in UK called AKTIVITAT, with info. about KW single releases worlwide, tour dates, bootleg reviews and many more. The cover is in colour. It's a good quality fanzine. Price per issue in EC is 2.50 pounds. For any more information, write enclosing a IRC to: AKTIVITAT 108 Cummings Park Crescent Northfield Aberdeen, AB2 7AR SCOTLAND, UK The guy who runs the fanzine is Ian Calder. Tell him who send you. There will be a KW convention in February I think, in Blackpool UK. I'll send more info on this ASAP. Jose Garcia pepeg@ctivax.uab.es ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Jan 93 15:03:47 EST From: kraftwerk (kraftwerk mailing list) Subject: Name for group To: kraftwerk Really-From: front242@bsu-cs.bsu.edu (Cerebus the Aardvark) I thought about it, and thought maybe TEE would a could name, or maybe a variation on it... Or how about Kraftwerkinformatikgruppe??? Just some thoughts... -- ============================================================================= Geoff Wessel ALIASES: Weasel, Cerebus, schmuck, f**khead, "Hey you", etc. VAX: 00GDWESSEL OR 00GDWESSEL@LEO.BSUVC.BSU.EDU UNIX:front242@bsu-cs.bsu.edu ============================================================================= "I don't know a damn thing about anything, O*klick*...." --NEGATIVLAND ============================================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Jan 93 13:27:47 +45722724 From: kraftwerk (kraftwerk mailing list) Subject: Name for the group To: kraftwerk Really-From: Chris.Hilker How about a translation of the band's name into English - I believe "Power Station" is close? C. -- hilker!chris (cspot@cats.ucsc.edu) All the world's problems are in our heads. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Jan 93 13:11:00 -0500 From: kraftwerk (kraftwerk mailing list) Subject: Radio-activity ? To: kraftwerk Really-From: prabhu@freya.cs.umass.edu Hi folks, According to the recent releases list on rec.music.misc, Radio-activity was supposed to be released on CD this 15th Jan. However it did not have an 'r' next to it signifying that it was a re-release ... Has anyone seen this one yet, and is it the same as the 1975 release ? -- Raj p.s. Apologies if this one's been discussed already, I just got on the list. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1993 13:25:48 GMT+0100 From: kraftwerk (kraftwerk mailing list) Subject: the KW list To: kraftwerk Really-From: Jose Garcia So it seems this has really started, hasn't it? Shall we name the list? A name for the list that's been on my mind is Computer Aktivitat I'm sure all of you can suggest a good name for the list. I think it would be nice for the list to have a name, rather than be known by the KW mailing list. What do you think? And Dave, is it compiled every day in a digest? Jose Garcia pepeg@ctivax.uab.es ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1993 07:48:11 -0600 From: kraftwerk (kraftwerk mailing list) Subject: the KW list To: kraftwerk Really-From: datta (David Datta) A digest will be added soon. I have a bunch of other things to get done right now but I will set it up. -- -Dave datta@cs.uwp.edu "Such abuse would be illegal and is therefore unlikely." - FBI Director William Sessions ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Jan 93 13:59:31 EST From: kraftwerk (kraftwerk mailing list) Subject: the KW list To: kraftwerk Really-From: Eric On Tue, 19 Jan 1993 13:25:48 GMT+0100 you said: >Really-From: Jose Garcia >Shall we name the list? A name for the list that's been on my mind is >Computer Aktivitat Nice one. I don't have a problem with simply "Kraftwerk" but if the list needs a name, how about something short like one of these: *Aktivitat *Antenne *Endlos *Enegie *Maschine *Robotnik *Trans ? --Eric eiverso@cms.cc.wayne.edu "I'm the Inman And I'm keen Detroit, Michigan USA I've a mind Like a machine" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Jan 93 21:18:40 MET From: kraftwerk (kraftwerk mailing list) Subject: the KW list To: kraftwerk Really-From: lupo@pool.informatik.rwth-aachen.de > > Really-From: Eric > > On Tue, 19 Jan 1993 13:25:48 GMT+0100 you said: > >Really-From: Jose Garcia > >Shall we name the list? A name for the list that's been on my mind is > >Computer Aktivitat Hm. Not bad. But how about spelling it correct `Computer Aktivitaet` ? or `C. Aktivita"t` ? > > Nice one. I don't have a problem with simply "Kraftwerk" but if > the list needs a name, how about something short like one of these: > > *Aktivitat s.o. > *Antenne > *Endlos > *Enegie Energie *Maschine > *Robotnik > *Trans > > ? > > --Eric > > eiverso@cms.cc.wayne.edu "I'm the Inman And I'm keen > Detroit, Michigan USA I've a mind Like a machine" > I personally prefer just `Kraftwerk`. Cheers -- Lutz ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Jan 93 11:40:09 PST From: kraftwerk (kraftwerk mailing list) Subject: the KW list To: kraftwerk Really-From: oedipus@cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us (Edsarr) Howdy, If there is a desire to name the Kraftwerk mailing list, I suggest Kling-Klang. Kraftwerk studio name (topical), looks good in print (easy to remember), and reminiscent of synth sounds (onomatopoetic). Ed -- Rev.Dr.Oedipus P. Wienushausen # The only constant is change; oedipus@cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us # enjoy the illusory dance. # Love is the nature of universe. Poised on the brink: Utopia/Oblivion # >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Jan 93 22:21:01 +0100 From: kraftwerk (kraftwerk mailing list) Subject: the KW list To: kraftwerk Really-From: Jan Mattsson "lupo@pool.informatik.rwth-aachen.de" writes: >I personally prefer just `Kraftwerk`. I agree. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Jan 93 18:27:32 EST From: kraftwerk (kraftwerk mailing list) Subject: the KW list To: kraftwerk Really-From: front242@bsu-cs.bsu.edu (Cerebus the Aardvark) > > Really-From: oedipus@cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us (Edsarr) > > > Howdy, > > If there is a desire to name the Kraftwerk mailing list, I suggest > > Kling-Klang. > > Kraftwerk studio name (topical), looks good in print (easy to remember), > and reminiscent of synth sounds (onomatopoetic). > Now that I think about it, I'll second this. -- ============================================================================= Geoff Wessel ALIASES: Weasel, Cerebus, schmuck, f**khead, "Hey you", etc. VAX: 00GDWESSEL OR 00GDWESSEL@LEO.BSUVC.BSU.EDU UNIX:front242@bsu-cs.bsu.edu ============================================================================= "I don't know a damn thing about anything, O*klick*...." --NEGATIVLAND ============================================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1993 12:01:34 GMT+0100 From: kraftwerk (kraftwerk mailing list) Subject: the KW list To: kraftwerk Really-From: PEPEG@ctivax.uab.es > Really-From: oedipus@cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us (Edsarr) > > > Howdy, > > If there is a desire to name the Kraftwerk mailing list, I suggest > > Kling-Klang. > I suggested having a name because I've seen this in other lists, even with a logo as the header of each digest. It'd be nice... And I do like Kling-Klang, because of it's sound and because it's short. I also like Computer-Aktivitat because it was suggested by myself :-) No, really, because of its meaning and Kraftwerk relation. Radio-Aktivitat means the radiation, but also the activity through a radio station. Then, Computer-Aktivitat means activity through the computer, and that's what a mailing list is, isn't it? Anyway, I do like Kling-Klang. >Eric: >Nice one. I don't have a problem with simply "Kraftwerk" but if >the list needs a name, how about something short like one of these: >*Aktivitat >*Antenne >... I do like Aktivitat, but Computer-Aktivitat it's even better IMHO. And also, there's already a fanzine (in paper, and a good one if you're a KW collector) called Aktivitat. >Lutz: > Hm. Not bad. But how about spelling it correct `Computer Aktivitaet` ? > or `C. Aktivita"t` ? You're right! Sorry, but we don't have the dieresis in the ASCII code. Computer-Aktivitaet is much correct. >Lutz: >I personally prefer just `Kraftwerk`. Well, then we have two KWs: the band and the mailing list. BTW, Lutz. How do you pronounce Flu"r? and Bartos? and Hu"tter? Jose Garcia pepeg@ctivax.uab.es ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Jan 93 09:19:03 EST From: kraftwerk (kraftwerk mailing list) Subject: Trolling the waters for interest in Kraftwerk Mailing list To: kraftwerk Really-From: Eric Iverson On Sat, 16 Jan 1993 01:02:43 -0600 you said: >I added you, first order of business is to determine the focus >of the group. Just Kraftwerk or German Electronic music as a whole. The narrower the established focus is, the less likely it'll be for discussion to stray off into obscure of irrelevant territory. I would prefer Kraftwerk to be the focus, but would welcome discussion of related topics--German Electronic Music (Der Plan, Trio, etc.); Bands directly inspired by Kraftwerk (Cybotron, LFO, etc.); and other topics of possible interest to Kraftwerk fans. That's my 2 common cents. --Eric ------------------------------ End of Kraftwerk Digest ****************************** Date: Thu, 21 Jan 93 04:00:11 CST From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu Reply-To: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (Kraftwerk) Subject: Kraftwerk Digest V1 #2 Kraftwerk Digest Thu, 21 Jan 93 Volume 1 : Issue 2 Today's Topics: Digest and intro letter ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1993 19:04:36 -0600 From: kraftwerk (kraftwerk mailing list) Subject: Digest and intro letter To: kraftwerk Really-From: David Datta The digest is now available. Here is the draft of the intro letter, I still need to know: Kraftwerk or German Electronics in general. Hi, I would like to welcome you to the mailing list "kraftwerk". It is a forum for discussions about Kraftwerk and other German Electronic artists. The discussions are not moderated. Please reply to this message to test the mail path. In your reply, tell me which way you would like to receive the mail from the list (described below.) [Please reply to kraftwerk-request or the sender of this mail, do not send the test message to kraftwerk.] Currently, there are two methods of receiving the list: You have been added to the interactive list and I will change you to the digest list on request. For both methods, you mail to the address: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu All messages are placed in 2 queues, the interactive members will receive the messages each half-hour as individual mailings, the Digests are 1 per day with all messages compressed into one mail. Interactive: To reply only to the person who wrote the origional the message, change the address to the one found on the "Really-From:" line. If you are starting a new subject, please keep one subject per message, this will keep things tidy for those people who are reading the digest. Otherwise, please keep the subject line the same (if it becomes "Re:" or some variant, that's ok). Digest: Each day, all of the messages that were sent to kraftwerk are collected together, sorted by subject line & date, then mailed out to all of the members of the digest list. When you reply to the digest, you mail to kraftwerk. (Please change the subject to match that of the topic you wish to discuss.) Archives for kraftwerk are available via ftp from cs.uwp.edu (131.210.1.4) in the pub/music/kraftwerk/archives directory, they are also available via e-mail request from the sender of this mail. (Other things in the archives include kraftwerk GIFs and the discography.) PLEASE NOTE: If your site bounces kraftwerk mail for a period of one week, I will automatically suspend your subscription. If you wish to inquire the status of kraftwerk at any time, please feel free to mail kraftwerk-request. If you want to be removed, or someone you know wants to be added, you (or your friend) can mail to: kraftwerk-request@cs.uwp.edu The Kraftwerk mailing list and Digest is brought to you by: Datta Production and Development 905 97th Street Kenosha, WI 53143 Distribution is made possible via: University of Wisconsin-Parkside Wood Road Kenosha, WI 53141 ------------------------------ End of Kraftwerk Digest ****************************** Date: Fri, 22 Jan 93 04:00:12 CST From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu Reply-To: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (Kraftwerk) Subject: Kraftwerk Digest V1 #3 Kraftwerk Digest Fri, 22 Jan 93 Volume 1 : Issue 3 Today's Topics: 1981 live pics needed Digest and intro letter heute abend.. Die MenschMaschine (4 msgs) Kraftwerk or German Electronics (5 msgs) Kraftwerk splitsville... (3 msgs) KW convention 1993 NEU! (2 msgs) Side projects by Kraftwerk, etc... the KW mailing list ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 15:33:32 GMT+0100 From: kraftwerk (kraftwerk mailing list) Subject: 1981 live pics needed To: kraftwerk Really-From: Jose Garcia Does anyone have / is anyone able to get live pics. from the 1981 tour? They are needed for an article in the fanzine Aktivitat. Get in touch with me, or with Paul Wilkinson (one of the guys who makes the fanzine). Jose Garcia pepeg@ctivax.uab.es ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jan 93 8:41:36 CST From: kraftwerk (kraftwerk mailing list) Subject: Digest and intro letter To: kraftwerk Really-From: dacc@cmp-rt.music.uiuc.edu (Andrew C. Crowell) > > Please reply to this message to test the mail path. In your reply, tell > me which way you would like to receive the mail from the list > (described below.) [Please reply to kraftwerk-request or the sender of > this mail, do not send the test message to kraftwerk.] Here 'tis...test, test...:) Keep me on the interactive list, BTW... D.A.C. Crowell Computer Music Project/School of Music University of Illinois at Urbana/Champaign (dacc@cmp-rt.music.uiuc.edu) > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jan 93 11:13:08 MEZ From: kraftwerk (kraftwerk mailing list) Subject: heute abend.. Die MenschMaschine To: kraftwerk Really-From: lupo@pool.informatik.rwth-aachen.de >Really-From: front242@bsu-cs.bsu.edu (Cerebus the Aardvark) > >Or how about Kraftwerkinformatikgruppe??? I think this one sounds a bit facistic. >Really-From: Chris.Hilker > > >How about a translation of the band's name into English - I believe >"Power Station" is close? Well, the correct translation is `Power Plant` (Like `Atomkraftwerk`) I don't like the English trans. I think Kling-Klang is very good. I would vote for Kling-Klang. >BTW, Lutz. How do you pronounce Flu"r? and Bartos? and Hu"tter? > >Jose Garcia pepeg@ctivax.uab.es Well, I think `Bartos` is pronounced like `Bart Simpson`. Hu"tter sounds very special. I will look in a dictionary for English phonemes... (or I can sample the pronounciation and e-mail). -- Lutz ` ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jan 93 11:03:34 EST From: kraftwerk (kraftwerk mailing list) Subject: heute abend.. Die MenschMaschine To: kraftwerk Really-From: front242@bsu-cs.bsu.edu (Cerebus the Aardvark) > > Really-From: lupo@pool.informatik.rwth-aachen.de > > >Really-From: front242@bsu-cs.bsu.edu (Cerebus the Aardvark) > > > >Or how about Kraftwerkinformatikgruppe??? > > I think this one sounds a bit facistic. > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > Can you say "Way outta left field," boys and girls? I knew you could! Please explain to me how in Hell's name "Kraftwerk Information Group" is Facis- tic(sp?) ?!?!?!? > > -- Lutz > ` > -- ============================================================================= Geoff Wessel ALIASES: Weasel, Cerebus, schmuck, f**khead, "Hey you", etc. VAX: 00GDWESSEL OR 00GDWESSEL@LEO.BSUVC.BSU.EDU UNIX:front242@bsu-cs.bsu.edu ============================================================================= "I don't know a damn thing about anything, O*klick*...." --NEGATIVLAND ============================================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jan 93 14:09:28 EST From: kraftwerk (kraftwerk mailing list) Subject: heute abend.. Die MenschMaschine To: kraftwerk Really-From: Erich Iversen On Thu, 21 Jan 93 11:03:34 EST you said: >Really-From: front242@bsu-cs.bsu.edu (Cerebus the Aardvark) >> Really-From: lupo@pool.informatik.rwth-aachen.de >> >Really-From: front242@bsu-cs.bsu.edu (Cerebus the Aardvark) >> > >> >Or how about Kraftwerkinformatikgruppe??? >> >> I think this one sounds a bit facistic. >> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ... >Please explain to me how in Hell's name "Kraftwerk Information Group" is Facis- >tic(sp?) ?!?!?!? It's spelled fascistic or fa"scistic. ;-) And sure if you translate it to *english* it loses the fascistic lilt. ;-) As I said before, I like just "Kraftwerk" but I think "Killer Nazi Robots" has a nice ring to it. :) :) :) Let's see how's "Totschlaegernaziroboter" sound? :) --Eric eiverso@cms.cc.wayne.edu "I'm the Inman And I'm keen Detroit, Michigan USA I've a mind Like a machine" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jan 93 15:48:52 EST From: kraftwerk (kraftwerk mailing list) Subject: heute abend.. Die MenschMaschine To: kraftwerk Really-From: front242@bsu-cs.bsu.edu (Cerebus the Aardvark) > > Really-From: Erich Iversen > > On Thu, 21 Jan 93 11:03:34 EST you said: > >Really-From: front242@bsu-cs.bsu.edu (Cerebus the Aardvark) > >> Really-From: lupo@pool.informatik.rwth-aachen.de > >> >Really-From: front242@bsu-cs.bsu.edu (Cerebus the Aardvark) > >> > > >> >Or how about Kraftwerkinformatikgruppe??? > >> > >> I think this one sounds a bit facistic. > >> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > ... > >Please explain to me how in Hell's name "Kraftwerk Information Group" is Facis- > >tic(sp?) ?!?!?!? > > It's spelled fascistic or fa"scistic. ;-) Sue me. I had a long night.... > And sure if you translate it to *english* it loses the fascistic lilt. ;-) > > As I said before, I like just "Kraftwerk" but > I think "Killer Nazi Robots" has a nice ring to it. :) :) :) > > Let's see how's "Totschlaegernaziroboter" sound? :) > Whatever man..... Get a fuckin' clue before starting to post on this. > --Eric > > eiverso@cms.cc.wayne.edu "I'm the Inman And I'm keen > Detroit, Michigan USA I've a mind Like a machine" > -- ============================================================================= Geoff Wessel ALIASES: Weasel, Cerebus, schmuck, f**khead, "Hey you", etc. VAX: 00GDWESSEL OR 00GDWESSEL@LEO.BSUVC.BSU.EDU UNIX:front242@bsu-cs.bsu.edu ============================================================================= "I don't know a damn thing about anything, O*klick*...." --NEGATIVLAND ============================================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 12:52:21 GMT+0100 From: kraftwerk (kraftwerk mailing list) Subject: Kraftwerk or German Electronics To: kraftwerk Really-From: Jose Garcia >The digest is now available. Here is the draft of the intro letter, >I still need to know: > >Kraftwerk or German Electronics in general. If German Electronics in general means Tangerine Dream, K. Schulze, Ash Ra Tempel, ... I'd say Kraftwerk only. They have no similarities, except for having been labeled as "German Rock" in the 70s. I think that early OMD is much nearer to KW than these German Electronics bands. I'd choose to discuss about KW and related bands (related because of ex- members or because of influences, type of music, ...) That's my honest opinion. Jose Garcia pepeg@ctivax.uab.es ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jan 93 12:14:46 GMT From: kraftwerk (kraftwerk mailing list) Subject: Kraftwerk or German Electronics To: kraftwerk Really-From: Al Crawford > Really-From: Jose Garcia > > If German Electronics in general means Tangerine Dream, K. Schulze, > Ash Ra Tempel, ... I'd say Kraftwerk only. They have no similarities, > except for having been labeled as "German Rock" in the 70s. Agreed, "German Electronics" is really way too general a label. I agree with Jose that the list should be restricted to Kraftwerk, although while I think including "related bands" would be a good idea (his example of early OMD being a particularly good one) I think we'd also have to make sure we didn't drift too far off topic - Kraftwerk have influenced so many people, after all. Oh, and while I'm about it, I'm all for keeping the name as just Kraftwerk. Simple, straightforward, clear. Al -- Al Crawford - awrc@dcs.ed.ac.uk Department Of Computer Science, The University of Edinburgh Rm 1410, JCMB, Kings Buildings, Mayfield Rd, EDINBURGH, EH9 3JZ, Scotland Tel: +44 (0) 31 650 5165 Fax: +44 (0) 31 667 7209 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 07:42:51 -0600 From: kraftwerk (kraftwerk mailing list) Subject: Kraftwerk or German Electronics To: kraftwerk Really-From: datta (David Datta) Okay, how about: Kraftwerk and other related German Electronic artists. or Kraftwerk and other bands heavily influenced by Kraftwerk. or Bands who are described as "Kraftwerk" like. -- -Dave datta@cs.uwp.edu "Such abuse would be illegal and is therefore unlikely." - FBI Director William Sessions ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 15:23:54 GMT+0100 From: kraftwerk (kraftwerk mailing list) Subject: Kraftwerk or German Electronics To: kraftwerk Really-From: Jose Garcia > Dave Datta: >Kraftwerk and other related German Electronic artists. Then you exclude non-German bands which are Kraftwerk-ish. >Kraftwerk and other bands heavily influenced by Kraftwerk. >Bands who are described as "Kraftwerk" like. These two are better, IMHO. Jose Garcia ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jan 93 8:24:25 CST From: kraftwerk (kraftwerk mailing list) Subject: Kraftwerk or German Electronics To: kraftwerk Really-From: dacc@cmp-rt.music.uiuc.edu (Andrew C. Crowell) > > Really-From: Al Crawford > > > Really-From: Jose Garcia > > > > If German Electronics in general means Tangerine Dream, K. Schulze, > > Ash Ra Tempel, ... I'd say Kraftwerk only. They have no similarities, > > except for having been labeled as "German Rock" in the 70s. > > Agreed, "German Electronics" is really way too general a label. I agree > with Jose that the list should be restricted to Kraftwerk, although while I > think including "related bands" would be a good idea (his example of early > OMD being a particularly good one) I think we'd also have to make sure we > didn't drift too far off topic - Kraftwerk have influenced so many people, > after all. Hmmm...when I think of the phrase "related bands" in relation to Kraftwerk, what I come up with is the group of experimenters circling about Conny Plank between 1970-1976, before he got really into working with more "commercial" (?) artists like Ultravox, Eurhythmics, and such. These bands would include NEU!, Cluster, Harmonia, the weird electro-jazz one-off Liliental, and so on. These groups are _directly_ related to Kraftwerk, in one case by members and in most all cases by equipment lineups and a certain similarity in sound in all their early albums. Basically, I think the list should stick to Kraftwerk and this certain gamut of artists, from both a musical and a historic perspective. D.A.C. Crowell Computer Music Project/School of Music University of Illinois at Urbana/Champaign (dacc@cmp-rt.music.uiuc.edu) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jan 93 08:48:14 CST From: kraftwerk (kraftwerk mailing list) Subject: Kraftwerk splitsville... To: kraftwerk Really-From: dacc@cmp-rt.music.uiuc.edu (Andrew C. Crowell) I've been looking at the messages about Kraftwerk splitting up, with Karl Bartos and Wolfgang Flur leaving the group, and thinking about what this might really signify... And does it really signify anything? Not sure...remember, for the first three albums, Kraftwerk really was _only_ Ralf and Florian. Hell, their third album's entitled that. If what this signifies is that we might get some Kraftwerk that's more in the vein of the _old_, experimental-type material, I'd actually be all for that. Oh, and not to forget, after "Autobahn", they lost a member then: their guitarist (yep, guitarist!) Klaus Roeder. Wolfgang Flur joined for that album, as did Roeder. Flur stayed, Roeder left.... D.A.C. Crowell Computer Music Project/School of Music University of Illinois at Urbana/Champaign (dacc@cmp-rt.music.uiuc.edu) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 17:12:24 GMT+0100 From: kraftwerk (kraftwerk mailing list) Subject: Kraftwerk splitsville... To: kraftwerk Really-From: Jose Garcia >Andrew: > I've been looking at the messages about Kraftwerk splitting up, with >Karl Bartos and Wolfgang Flur leaving the group, and thinking about what this >might really signify... > And does it really signify anything? Not sure... Bartos and Flur were both in charge of the electronic percussion, a very *important* part in KW's sound. We will have to wait til KW releases new material (not a Mix) to see if this has affected KW. BTW, does anyone have info about why did they split? Were they sacked? I still don't know. In Spain, KW doesn't have much coverage in the music press. Jose Garcia pepeg@ctivax.uab.es ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jan 93 17:05:09 CST From: kraftwerk (kraftwerk mailing list) Subject: Kraftwerk splitsville... To: kraftwerk Really-From: dacc@cmp-rt.music.uiuc.edu (Andrew C. Crowell) > > Really-From: Jose Garcia > > >Andrew: > > I've been looking at the messages about Kraftwerk splitting up, with > >Karl Bartos and Wolfgang Flur leaving the group, and thinking about what this > >might really signify... > > And does it really signify anything? Not sure... > > Bartos and Flur were both in charge of the electronic percussion, a very > *important* part in KW's sound. Well, sorta. Bartos wasn't on "Autobahn", his first contributions were on "Radioactivity". And Ralf and Florian were using e-perc back as far as "Kraftwerk 2", on the cut "Klingklang" (probably the ubiquitous [for then] Echolette "Drummer One" box). Flur and Bartos did _manually triggered_ e-percussion, which was quite an innovation for the time, but until Wolfgang Flur showed up on "Autobahn", they were using rhythm generators. Incidentially, there's _live_drums_ on "Kraftwerk 1", both on "Ruckzack" and "Stratovarius" (on that one, the drumset seems to be being kicked over). Just a side-note... D.A.C. Crowell Computer Music Project/School of Music University of Illinois at Urbana/Champaign (dacc@cmp-rt.music.uiuc.edu) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 09:53:46 GMT+0100 From: kraftwerk (kraftwerk mailing list) Subject: KW convention 1993 To: kraftwerk Really-From: Jose Garcia Here's a transcription of the flier announcing the 2nd KW convention: ========================================================================= The 2nd Kraftwerk Convention will be taking place in Blackpool (UK) on 21st February 1993 at the Rosecrea Hotel. The 2nd Convention will feature once again a video show which will include video's from Europe, many of which you will never have seen before. This year will see a difference, by the live performance of the band ElektroKinetik. This duo will be playing nothing but Kraftwerk tracks and are well worth seeing, in the afternoon. The day will begin around 11 o'clock and a buffet will be served around midday. Also represented at the convention will be AKTIVITA"T, the Kraftwerk fanzine that debuted at last years convention. All fans are welcome and should bring along any items they wish to show, swap or trade. The cost per ticket is 6.25 pounds which includes band and buffet. Paul Wilkinson 80 Poulton Old Road Layton BLACKPOOL Lancs England FY3 7LJ Tel. 0253 391174 ========================================================================== Don't ask me about ElektroKinetic. I have no info on them. Jose Garcia pepeg@ctivax.uab.es ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 17:17:15 GMT+0100 From: kraftwerk (kraftwerk mailing list) Subject: NEU! To: kraftwerk Really-From: Jose Garcia >... >and according to the liner notes of Cherry Red's NEU! compilation "Black >Forest Gateau"... What's this compilation? Has any material of NEU! been re-released on CD? Jose Garcia pepeg@ctivax.uab.es ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jan 93 16:59:18 CST From: kraftwerk (kraftwerk mailing list) Subject: NEU! To: kraftwerk Really-From: dacc@cmp-rt.music.uiuc.edu (Andrew C. Crowell) > > Really-From: Jose Garcia > > >... > >and according to the liner notes of Cherry Red's NEU! compilation "Black > >Forest Gateau"... > > What's this compilation? Has any material of NEU! been re-released on CD? It's an LP that Cherry Red came out with back in the mid-80s, with stuff from "NEU!" and "NEU! '75", nothing off of "NEU! 2", unfortunately. If Cherry Red's in a habit of rereleasing stuff on CD, it'd probably be the only NEU! material _on_ CD..._UNFORTUNATELY!!!!!_ With Brain rereleasing even stuff like "Musik von Harmonia", you'd think they'd get around to NEU!...I got the "Musik von Harmonia" rerelease (at a _whopping_ $23 US!!!), it's wonderful, of course. D.A.C. Crowell Computer Music Project/School of Music University of Illinois at Urbana/Champaign (dacc@cmp-rt.music.uiuc.edu) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jan 93 09:01:16 CST From: kraftwerk (kraftwerk mailing list) Subject: Side projects by Kraftwerk, etc... To: kraftwerk Really-From: dacc@cmp-rt.music.uiuc.edu (Andrew C. Crowell) So Bartos left to do "Elektrik Musik", hm? Y'know, this isn't the first time there's been Kraftwerk members doing side projects. Lessee here... Back in 1972 or thereabouts, there got recorded about one whole album that's got this lineup: Ralf Hutter, Florian Schneider, Klaus Dinger, Michael Rother. Yep, the mysterious NEU!/Kraftwerk collaboration! Now, to my knowledge and according to the liner notes of Cherry Red's NEU! compilation "Black Forest Gateau", this has never been released. I _am_ wondering, however, if bootlegs of the project might be extant, or if Brain or Vertigo (the two record companies of the two bands at the time) might be thinking about putting this out. Brain's been re-releasing a lot of old electronic stuff on CD as of late; we might get lucky (ihopeihopeihope!). Then a few years ago, a good friend of mine turned up a record by "Die Dominas". Not much info on it, just this 10" mini-LP, kinda bootleg- looking, found it in a store up in Chicago. What you get on this is some female dominatrix-person in one long (and _very_ weird) cut and two shorter ones. What's significant about _this_ is the two backup players: "Karl" and "Ralf". No other info, just that. But when you listen...hmmm..._very_ much like the sound you get on "Man-Machine" or "Trans-Europe", but a lot less polished and more playful...kinda like this was just some sort of screwing about that was done and got taped and rough-mixed. I can't be 100% sure that this was a Kraftwerk side-project, but the sound of this thing says the possibility is really, really high that it is. I'm still trying to find a copy of this myself... And then there's Organization, but that's not fair, coz Ralf and Florian hadn't formed Kraftwerk at that point...:) D.A.C. Crowell Computer Music Project/School of Music University of Illinois at Urbana/Champaign (dacc@cmp-rt.music.uiuc.edu) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 15:30:44 GMT+0100 From: kraftwerk (kraftwerk mailing list) Subject: the KW mailing list To: kraftwerk Really-From: Jose Garcia >Al: >Oh, and while I'm about it, I'm all for keeping the name as just Kraftwerk. >Simple, straightforward, clear. There aren't many opinions about naming the list. My suggestion was just an idea... The *IMPORTANT* thing is that now we have a KW mailing list, and not its name. Still like Computer-Aktivitaet though ... Jose Garcia pepeg@ctivax.uab.es ------------------------------ End of Kraftwerk Digest ****************************** Date: Sat, 23 Jan 93 04:00:14 CST From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu Reply-To: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (Kraftwerk) Subject: Kraftwerk Digest V1 #4 Kraftwerk Digest Sat, 23 Jan 93 Volume 1 : Issue 4 Today's Topics: "Showroom Dummies" EP heute abend.. Die MenschMaschine ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 22 Jan 93 20:07:12 MST From: kraftwerk (kraftwerk mailing list) Subject: "Showroom Dummies" EP To: kraftwerk Really-From: Lazlo Nibble Just saw this today: ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Kraftwerk: Showroom Dummies ep [1992] CD: 1992 US (CEMA Special Markets S21-57899) 6:11 The Robots (extended version) 3:42 The Robots (single version) 6:00 Showroom Dummies (single version) 6:02 Les Manneqins (single version) 5:56 Spacelab (bonus track) I don't know too much about their back-catalog -- does this have anything rare? It was $10, a little steep for a disc that's under half an hour long . . . cool cover, though (the band silhouetted over four neon signs of their names). -- Lazlo (lazlo@triton.unm.edu) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jan 93 18:11:00 MET From: kraftwerk (kraftwerk mailing list) Subject: heute abend.. Die MenschMaschine To: kraftwerk Really-From: lupo@pool.informatik.rwth-aachen.de > > Really-From: front242@bsu-cs.bsu.edu (Cerebus the Aardvark) (and more...) > > >> >Or how about Kraftwerkinformatikgruppe??? > > >> > > >> I think this one sounds a bit facistic. > > >> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > ... > > >Please explain to me how in Hell's name "Kraftwerk Information Group" is Facis- > > >tic(sp?) ?!?!?!? > > > > It's spelled fascistic or fa"scistic. ;-) ^^^^^^^^^^ not! In German it's `faschistisch` Sorry Folks, as you know, English is not my native language. But it's yours! > > And sure if you translate it to *english* it loses the fascistic lilt. ;-) > > > > As I said before, I like just "Kraftwerk" but > > I think "Killer Nazi Robots" has a nice ring to it. :) :) :) > > > > Let's see how's "Totschlaegernaziroboter" sound? :) Well, I have to tell a little story: As you all know, Nazi just means `Nationalsozialist` which means, well nothing too bad (if you don't think about history). You see. But especially these days words like `Kraft` and `Gruppe` have strong negative connotations in Germany. 4 xsample: words like `Wehrsportgruppe` or `Kampfgruppe SS` are used by skinheads and hooligans 2day. There are bands like `Kraftschlag` who are fascistic (and forbidden in D) and phrases like `Kraft durch Freude` (these words were written on gates of concentration camps in 3.Reich). If you'd translate `Kraftwerkinformatikgruppe` there is nothing about it, but it's different seen on the German historical background. My opinion is: `Kraftwerkinformatikgruppe` has a strong negative connotation. I am voting against it. Let's take `Kling-Klang` or `KW` or `MenschMaschine`. -- Lutz P.S. Cerebus: BTW the FLA concert on Monday was also cancelled here :( ------------------------------ End of Kraftwerk Digest ****************************** Date: Sun, 24 Jan 93 04:00:11 CST From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu Reply-To: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (Kraftwerk) Subject: Kraftwerk Digest V1 #5 Kraftwerk Digest Sun, 24 Jan 93 Volume 1 : Issue 5 Today's Topics: "Showroom Dummies" EP (3 msgs) NEU! catalog numbers. The Model The Model CD compilation (2 msgs) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 23 Jan 93 10:34:54 PST From: kraftwerk (kraftwerk mailing list) Subject: "Showroom Dummies" EP To: kraftwerk Really-From: kzim@ucrmath.ucr.edu (christopher zimmerman) Always be suspicious when you see 1977-78 tracks repackaged, because it usually means Capitol is trying to sucker Kraftwerk completists out of another $6-10. Of course, it works. I'll be buying my copy. Christopher Zimmerman kzim@ucrmath.ucr.edu Lazlo Nibble writes: Just saw this today: ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Kraftwerk: Showroom Dummies ep [1992] ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Jan 93 13:21:17 +45722724 From: kraftwerk (kraftwerk mailing list) Subject: "Showroom Dummies" EP To: kraftwerk Really-From: Chris.Hilker kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) writes: >Really-From: Lazlo Nibble >Just saw this today: >Kraftwerk: Showroom Dummies ep [1992] >I don't know too much about their back-catalog -- does this have anything >rare? It was $10, a little steep for a disc that's under half an hour >long . . . cool cover, though (the band silhouetted over four neon signs >of their names). I saw this too. I believe it states on the sleeve somewhere that all the tracks are also available on the 'The Model' compilation. C. -- hilker!chris (cspot@cats.ucsc.edu) Life is fair. There, I said it. If anyone asks, you can tell them I did. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Jan 93 16:20:21 MST From: kraftwerk (kraftwerk mailing list) Subject: "Showroom Dummies" EP To: kraftwerk Really-From: Lazlo Nibble > I believe it states on the sleeve somewhere that all the > tracks are also available on the 'The Model' compilation. Actually it says that tracks 2-4 are from 'The Model' -- "The Robots (extended)" and "Spacelab" aren't. I don't know if "Spacelab" is a special mix; it seems to be shorter than the version on 'Man Machine'. -- Lazlo (lazlo@triton.unm.edu) Frankie say be the hammer not the anvil ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Jan 93 12:00:30 CST From: kraftwerk (kraftwerk mailing list) Subject: NEU! catalog numbers. To: kraftwerk Really-From: dacc@cmp-rt.music.uiuc.edu (Andrew C. Crowell) Our illustrious mailing-list coordinator requested that I post up some catalog numbers and info about NEU!'s releases, so here they are...but first, a bit about the group. NEU! consisted of Klaus Dinger and Michael Rother, adding Hans Lampe and Thomas Dinger for their final album. They were spawned out of the same Dusseldorf experimental rock scene that gave us Cluster and Kraftwerk, and in a certain sense provide something of a bridge between those two groups. Dinger and Rother, as before mentioned, worked with Ralf Hutter and Florian Schneider on a supposedly-unreleased project in the early 1970's, and Rother joined up with Cluster to form Harmonia, which released two albums on Brain in the mid-70's. NEU!'s sound will be familiar to people who've heard the first Kraftwerk album. They took a more rock-like approach, though; nevertheless, the repetition, drone-elements, and metronomic percussion are an interesting and similar counterpart to Kraftwerk's approaches during the same period (which was from 1971 to 1975). A possible way of describing NEU! is "Philip Glass plays surf music", or even better, "The Velvet Underground meets Kraftwerk". Any release by NEU! is well-worth having if you're a fan of Kraftwerk's music. Anyway, here's the catalog numbers, as far as I can recall them, as well as labels and titles... "NEU!" (1st LP)...Brain 1004...recorded 1971, released in 1972. "NEU! 2"...Brain 1028...recorded and released 1973, except for two tracks recorded in 1972 as a single ("Neuschnee"/"Super"), Brain 503. "NEU! '75"...Brain 1062...recorded 1974/75, released 1975. "Black Forest Gateau"...Cherry Red B RED 37...compilation of tracks from "NEU!" and "NEU! '75", released in 1982. Now, as for related projects, there's of course the missing NEU!/ Kraftwerk project, which the "Black Forest Gateau" notes describe as being by Dinger/Rother/Schneider, although I've heard varying stories about what the line-up was. Then there's Harmonia, which is the only NEU!-related material I know to have at least one CD reissue... "Musik von Harmonia"...Brain CD 511 977-2...recorded and originally released in 1974, _finally_ rereleased on CD in 1992 (yay!). "Deluxe"...on Brain, sorry, forgot the catalog #...recorded and released in 197 Now, when NEU! split up after "NEU! '75", they went in two differing directions. Rother went off to do a number of solo albums on Sky records, some of which have been thankfully rereleased by Polydor on CD. The remaining threesome (the Dingers and Lampe) formed La Dusseldorf, recording a few albums and single projects. Rother's output was much more stable than Dinger's, however, and there are several more solo Michael Rother albums than La Dusseldorf projects. Fans of more Kraftwerk-like material will tend to gravitate, I think, toward Rother's body of work; La Dusseldorf, while still satisfying, is much more in a conventional rock vein, although it retains the metronomic feel and minimalistic repetition of NEU!. Hope this info's useful. If any of you reading this list find a NEU! album in a used or import bin now, you know what to do. :) Oh, and if anyone over in Europe has any info on NEU! rereleases of CD, or Brain/Metronome's rumblings about possibly rereleasing them, please post it up to the list Oh, one more bit of trivia..."NEU!" has two tracks entitled "Seeland" and "Negativland"...wanna guess what other bunch of folks might be NEU! fans? :) D.A.C. Crowell Computer Music Project/School of Music University of Illinois at Urbana/Champaign (dacc@cmp-rt.music.uiuc.edu) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Jan 93 0:25:43 EST From: kraftwerk (kraftwerk mailing list) Subject: The Model To: kraftwerk Really-From: front242@bsu-cs.bsu.edu (Cerebus the Aardvark) I personally had no problem with THE MODEL......since it's now next to impossi- ble to find any Kraftwerk on CD other than Autobahn, The Mix, and Electric Cafe at most stores, I was most grateful..... And how do you know Kraftwerk is defunct? They never actually SAID they were breaking up! Anyway, I also picked up a copy of "Tour de France" for $2.99 in Chicago over XMas....good stuff....too bad I don't have a turntable, or I'd be listening to Kraftwerk 24 hours a day now instead of only 15! :) -- ============================================================================= Geoff Wessel ALIASES: Weasel, Cerebus, schmuck, f**khead, "Hey you", etc. VAX: 00GDWESSEL OR 00GDWESSEL@LEO.BSUVC.BSU.EDU UNIX:front242@bsu-cs.bsu.edu ============================================================================= "I don't know a damn thing about anything, O*klick*...." --NEGATIVLAND ============================================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Jan 93 20:43:54 EST From: kraftwerk (kraftwerk mailing list) Subject: The Model CD compilation To: kraftwerk Really-From: Eric On Sat, 23 Jan 93 10:34:54 PST you said: >Really-From: kzim@ucrmath.ucr.edu (christopher zimmerman) > >Always be suspicious when you see 1977-78 tracks repackaged, because it usually >means Capitol is trying to sucker Kraftwerk completists out of another $6-10. Or worse. To anyone thinking of buying The Model compilation CD, I'd strongly suggest you save your money. Here's the story with my copy: The sound quality is OK for the first six cuts but then gets progressively worse from the seventh to last tracks--so much so that the final cut, Europe Endless, sounds like it was mastered from a badly scratched record. I've also had problems with skipping depending on which player I use: my Sony boombox plays it without skipping, but my Apple CD SC (which normally never gives me trouble) could not play *any* cuts without constant skipping. What's more, the jewel case does not stay shut by itself. I suppose I might just have a bad pressing. I'd like to know if anyone else can verify the problems I cited. It was packaged in a clear plastic casing that I'm used to seeing imports come in. It comes from CEMA/Cleopatra in LA. CEMA is a subsidiary of Capitol. There was a sticker on the casing that reads: "Leaders in the Techno-Industrial Movement Featuring Single Versions 1st time on CD". None of the cuts were particularly interesting or different from the album versions with the possible exception of "Les Mannequins", the French language version of Showroom Dummies. Since it is the second last cut, it sounds pretty scratchy. By far, the most interesting thing about this compilation are the liner notes which mention how Ralf and Florian met a Dusseldorf conservatory in 1968; opened Kling Klang in 1970; released their first album titled "Kraftwerk" [wrong] with Klaus Dinger and Michael Rother who later formed Neu; Neu lasted for three albums [wrong?]; Dave Brock of Hawkwind wrote the liner notes for Neu's first album "Neu" [who cares?]. Now you don't need to buy the CD to read the interesting parts of the liner notes. :) KRAFTWERK The Model Retrospective 1975-1978 Cleopatra CLEO57612 1992 (times from liner notes) Radioactivity 3:18 Neon Lights 3:28 Showroom Dummies 6:00 The Hall Of Mirrors 7:50 Antenna 3:05 The Model 3:38 Trans-Europe Express 3:53 (no segue into next cut) Metal On Metal 6:52 (actual time 6:40) The Robots 3:42 Les Mannequins 6:02 Europe Endless 9:35 Cover: silly pictures of a femmenine mannequin Liner photo: Black & white photo of Krafwerk in sillhouette; bald heads, neon signs. Disk image: same photo as liner notes; high-contrast blue, image obscured by type. Reccomendation: save your money. > >Of course, it works. I'll be buying my copy. > :) --Eric eiverso@cms.cc.wayne.edu "I'm the Inman And I'm keen Detroit, Michigan USA I've a mind Like a machine" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Jan 93 22:25:24 CST From: kraftwerk (kraftwerk mailing list) Subject: The Model CD compilation To: kraftwerk Really-From: dacc@cmp-rt.music.uiuc.edu (Andrew C. Crowell) > > Really-From: Eric > > There was a sticker on the casing that reads: > "Leaders in the Techno-Industrial Movement Featuring Single Versions 1st time > on CD". None of the cuts were particularly interesting or different from > the album versions with the possible exception of "Les Mannequins", the > French language version of Showroom Dummies. Since it is the second last > cut, it sounds pretty scratchy. Uh-oh...sounds like Capitol's trying to do the ol' Music Industry "Cash In On the Defunct Act" routine. This bodes ill, IMHO. Funny about the "proto industrial" part of that, though; none of the cuts herein (save for "Metal on Metal", and maybe "Antenna") are really industrial in the noisy sense. Maybe if Capitol controlled the masters for the first four LPs ("Kraftwerk" thru "Autobahn"), we'd get to hear stuff like the noise-based things on "Kraftwerk 2", or "Stratovarius" from the first album. _These_ are more proto-industrial than the tracks CEMA repackaged here, I think... Of course, the only thing we get rereleased on CD of _those_ albums is "Autobahn"...I think. If someone knows whether "Kraftwerk", "Kraftwerk 2", or "Ralf and Florian" have been remastered, please post it here! My vinyl copies sound like the Boys from Dusseldorf are eating Rice Krispies (r) somewhere in the background... > > By far, the most interesting thing about this compilation are the liner notes > which mention how Ralf and Florian met a Dusseldorf conservatory in 1968; > opened Kling Klang in 1970; released their first album titled "Kraftwerk" > [wrong] with Klaus Dinger and Michael Rother who later formed Neu; Neu > lasted for three albums [wrong?]; Dave Brock of Hawkwind wrote the liner > notes for Neu's first album "Neu" [who cares?]. Interesting info there...it reopens for me the debate on whether or not Dinger and Rother are lurking about on at least the _first_ track on "Kraftwerk" (yep, that's the first album). "Ruckzack", the cut in question, sounds _nothing_ like the rest of the album, but does sound rather NEU!-ish. According to the "Black Forest Gateau" notes, though, there should be another 23 minutes of NEU!-Werk if "Ruckzack" comprises eight minutes of the 35 that supposedly exist somewhere (in the late Konrad Plank's tape vaults? Klingklang? With Rother or Dinger? where might it be?). Funny bit about Dave Brock writing the liner notes for NEU!'s first LP, though...might've been on a UK edition. The German copy I have on Brain has the usual scribbly mess one normally associates with NEU!'s liner notes, a real DIY graphics job, almost certainly the work of Dinger and Rother themselves. > Now you don't need to buy the CD to read the interesting parts of the > liner notes. :) Thankee! I'd rather shell out for CDs of the actual albums they culled this compilation from any ol' day...:) D.A.C. Crowell Computer Music Project/School of Music University of Illinois at Urbana/Champaign (dacc@cmp-rt.music.uiuc.edu) ------------------------------ End of Kraftwerk Digest ****************************** Date: Mon, 25 Jan 93 04:00:09 CST From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu Reply-To: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (Kraftwerk) Subject: Kraftwerk Digest V1 #6 Kraftwerk Digest Mon, 25 Jan 93 Volume 1 : Issue 6 Today's Topics: KW defunct? The Model (3 msgs) The Model CD compilation (2 msgs) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 10:34:46 GMT+0100 From: kraftwerk (kraftwerk mailing list) Subject: KW defunct? To: kraftwerk Really-From: Jose Garcia (Cerebus the Aardvark:) > And how do you know Kraftwerk is defunct? They never actually SAID they were > breaking up! They are not! I think they are planning a second volume of the Mix, or so they have said in some interviews. What about new songs? Jose Garcia pepeg@ctivax.uab.es ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Jan 93 19:32:44 +45722724 From: kraftwerk (kraftwerk mailing list) Subject: The Model To: kraftwerk Really-From: Chris.Hilker kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) writes: >Really-From: front242@bsu-cs.bsu.edu (Cerebus the Aardvark) >I personally had no problem with THE MODEL......since it's now next to impossi >- >ble to find any Kraftwerk on CD other than Autobahn, The Mix, and Electric Caf >e >at most stores, I was most grateful..... I was just looking at the booklet to the "new" 'Showroom Dummies' CD today, and it had a notice that CEMA/Cleopatra would be reissuing CD's of 'The Man-Machine,' 'Radio-Activity,' and 'Trans-Europe Express' soon. C. -- hilker!chris (cspot@cats.ucsc.edu) Life is fair. There, I said it. If anyone asks, you can tell them I did. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Jan 93 23:23:29 EST From: kraftwerk (kraftwerk mailing list) Subject: The Model To: kraftwerk Really-From: front242@bsu-cs.bsu.edu (Cerebus the Aardvark) > > Really-From: Chris.Hilker > > I was just looking at the booklet to the "new" 'Showroom Dummies' CD > today, and it had a notice that CEMA/Cleopatra would be reissuing CD's > of 'The Man-Machine,' 'Radio-Activity,' and 'Trans-Europe Express' soon. > Peachums! And after I just bought two of those dues on vinyl too! ARGH! Of course, over the break I saw another CEMA release called "Robots," which is basically "The Model" with the focus being more on "Radio-Activity" than "TEE," like "the Model" was... Seems to be cassette-only release....along with the full picture that's inside "The Model," where you can see that they're all bald-headed mannequins.... wierdness.... > C. > > -- > hilker!chris (cspot@cats.ucsc.edu) > > Life is fair. There, I said it. If anyone asks, you can tell them I did. > -- ============================================================================= Geoff Wessel ALIASES: Weasel, Cerebus, schmuck, f**khead, "Hey you", etc. VAX: 00GDWESSEL OR 00GDWESSEL@LEO.BSUVC.BSU.EDU UNIX:front242@bsu-cs.bsu.edu ============================================================================= "I don't know a damn thing about anything, O*klick*...." --NEGATIVLAND ============================================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Jan 93 23:52:50 MST From: kraftwerk (kraftwerk mailing list) Subject: The Model To: kraftwerk Really-From: Lazlo Nibble > I was just looking at the booklet to the "new" 'Showroom Dummies' CD > today, and it had a notice that CEMA/Cleopatra would be reissuing CD's > of 'The Man-Machine,' 'Radio-Activity,' and 'Trans-Europe Express' soon. CEMA (sans Cleopatra) already did one CD reissue of "Radio-Activity" last year. Around here it went straight into the cutout bins, where I shelled out $5.99 for it. No liner notes at all (in fact the cover insert is just a single sheet, printed on one side and not even folded into a booklet). The sound quality is fairly "ehhh", but hey, six bucks is six bucks. -- Lazlo (lazlo@triton.unm.edu) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Jan 93 10:23:37 EST From: kraftwerk (kraftwerk mailing list) Subject: The Model CD compilation To: kraftwerk Really-From: Eric On Sat, 23 Jan 93 20:43:54 EST you said: > >By far, the most interesting thing about this compilation are the liner notes >which mention how Ralf and Florian met a Dusseldorf conservatory in 1968; >opened Kling Klang in 1970; released their first album titled "Kraftwerk" To explain why I thought this last point was wrong... Judging by the Kraftwerk discography, I thought their Ralf and Florian's first album was "Tonefloat" by Organisation. I guess I'm lucky that I've so far been able to find and purchase all their CD re-issued albums except for The Man-Machine which I have on vinyl anyway. :) --Eric eiverso@cms.cc.wayne.edu "I'm the Inman And I'm keen Detroit, Michigan USA I've a mind Like a machine" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Jan 93 14:31:01 CST From: kraftwerk (kraftwerk mailing list) Subject: The Model CD compilation To: kraftwerk Really-From: dacc@cmp-rt.music.uiuc.edu (Andrew C. Crowell) > > Really-From: Eric > > On Sat, 23 Jan 93 20:43:54 EST you said: > > > >By far, the most interesting thing about this compilation are the liner notes > >which mention how Ralf and Florian met a Dusseldorf conservatory in 1968; > >opened Kling Klang in 1970; released their first album titled "Kraftwerk" > > To explain why I thought this last point was wrong... > Judging by the Kraftwerk discography, I thought their Ralf and Florian's > first album was "Tonefloat" by Organisation. Sure is. This LP is supposed to be _very_ hard to find, btw. According to the liner notes to a Kraftwerk compilation on Fontana, Organization is supposed to be something of a classically-influenced jazz outfit. It'd be awfully damned interesting to hear what this was like... D.A.C. Crowell Computer Music Project/School of Music University of Illinois at Urbana/Champaign (dacc@cmp-rt.music.uiuc.edu) ------------------------------ End of Kraftwerk Digest ****************************** Date: Tue, 26 Jan 93 04:00:10 CST From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu Reply-To: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (Kraftwerk) Subject: Kraftwerk Digest V1 #7 Kraftwerk Digest Tue, 26 Jan 93 Volume 1 : Issue 7 Today's Topics: joining KW, KW 2, Ralf & Florian wanted "Showroom dummies" EP ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 23:25:01 -0500 From: kraftwerk (kraftwerk mailing list) Subject: joining To: kraftwerk Really-From: Tina Marie LeMarier Please include me in the digest mailings, and if possible list other mailings that are available. "I program my home computer, beam myself into the future" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 13:24:06 GMT+0100 From: kraftwerk (kraftwerk mailing list) Subject: KW, KW 2, Ralf & Florian To: kraftwerk Really-From: Jose Garcia Somebody asked about the release on CD of the 3 firts records. The rights of them belong now to Ralf & Florian. That's why they haven't been released on CD yet. In some interviews they were asked about the release of KW, KW 2, R & F on CD, and they said that they planned to remaster them and release them in the future... Now, it's up to you wether you believe them or not. Jose Garcia pepeg@ctivax.uab.es ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 10:38:53 GMT+0100 From: kraftwerk (kraftwerk mailing list) Subject: wanted "Showroom dummies" EP To: kraftwerk Really-From: Jose Garcia I'd like to get hold of a copy of the mentioned "S. Dummies" ep: CD: 1992 US (CEMA Special Markets S21-57899) I will pay for the disc plus mailing cost. I also have an spare CD to swap: German CD single "Die Roboter" (1991) Jose Garcia pepeg@ctivax.uab.es ------------------------------ End of Kraftwerk Digest ****************************** Date: Wed, 27 Jan 93 04:00:10 CST From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu Reply-To: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (Kraftwerk) Subject: Kraftwerk Digest V1 #8 Kraftwerk Digest Wed, 27 Jan 93 Volume 1 : Issue 8 Today's Topics: joining (3 msgs) New Keaftwerk Albums The Model ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 07:47:37 -0600 From: kraftwerk (kraftwerk mailing list) Subject: joining To: kraftwerk Really-From: datta (David Datta) } if possible list other mailings that are available. What a wonderfuly opportunity to plug the other lists!!! :-) I also administer lists for: Jean Michel Jarre Tangerine Dream Gary Numan If you would like to join any of those, mail datta@cs.uwp.edu -- -Dave datta@cs.uwp.edu "Such abuse would be illegal and is therefore unlikely." - FBI Director William Sessions ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Jan 93 9:43:07 MST From: kraftwerk (kraftwerk mailing list) Subject: joining To: kraftwerk Really-From: Lazlo Nibble > What a wonderfuly opportunity to plug the other lists!!! :-) Ditto! I run a list for Zang Tuum Tumb Records (Art of Noise, Frankie Goes To Hollywood, Propaganda, Seal, 808 State, et al.) and a list for The KLF, The ORB, and related bands. Email subscription requests to ztt-request@asylum.sf.ca.us or klf-request@asylum.sf.ca.us, as appropriate. -- Lazlo (lazlo@triton.unm.edu) STUPID REC.MUSIC.MISC LISTS #21: Songs About Chaos Dynamics Devo: Smooth Noodle Maps, System 7: Fractal Liason, Smiths: Oscillate Wildly ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Jan 93 20:36:42 GMT From: kraftwerk (kraftwerk mailing list) Subject: joining To: kraftwerk Really-From: rj_ingra@hal.uwe-bristol.ac.uk (Ingram) Re plug for other lists: could you please put me on the Jean Michel Jarre and Tangerine Dream Lists, thanks. Richard Ingram. (Rich) (Eagerly awaiting the new JMJ CD). ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Jan 93 20:49:48 GMT From: kraftwerk (kraftwerk mailing list) Subject: New Keaftwerk Albums To: kraftwerk Really-From: rj_ingra@hal.uwe-bristol.ac.uk (Ingram) Hi, Does anyone know when the next Kraftwerk CD will be coming out - I've read in the music press bout the possibility of one somewhen this year ??? Rich Ingram. "Tour De France Tour De France" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Jan 93 21:10:11 PST From: kraftwerk (kraftwerk mailing list) Subject: The Model To: kraftwerk Really-From: kzim@ucrmath.ucr.edu (christopher zimmerman) I hate CEMA. I've seen the rererere(re?)releases of "R-A", "TEE", and "TMM" and they look like cheap attempts (by Capitol, natch) to get Kraftwerk fans (or the curious) to shell out their money for inferior product. At least the original Capitol CD releases bear some passing resemblance to the vinyl product, and I'm so glad I bought mine appx. five years ago to compliment my mostly VG+ vinyls. CEMA certainly seems to have gotten a lot of milage from one photo. The picture of Ralf, Florian, et al which seems to have shown up on everything repackaged by them, specifically: "Robots," released in 1986 to capitalize on the fact that Warner was (possibly) making money with "Electric Cafe" at the time, "The Model" compilation, and now the "Showroom Dummies" EPCD. This patricular photo was originally on the Capitol Disco 12" of "Showroom Dummies"/ "Les Manniquens" from 1977, on the record label. The sleeve was the generic disco 12" sleeve. But then, you knew all this. I'm scared to play my vinyl of "Kraftwerk" as well as "Ralf and Florian." Thank God for blank cassettes. "Stratovarius" and "Ruckzack" are definitely my favourites. I'm waiting for CEMA to take four tracks, clip on a German version "never before released on CD in the US!" and charge me another $8.99 for it. It's a certainty. Not like something I want would be on disc, like "Tour de France." Who owns that now, Elektra? I've got five or six versions on various pieces of vinyl, but would kill for a disc of two or three. And oh yes, while I'm ranting on about Capitol, who can forget Capitol's re-release of "Trans-Europe Express" as a $5.99 CD-5? That was 1990, I believe. The first CD release of "Les Manniquens," but fortunately not the last... Gee, I seem to have gotten awfully sarcastic towards the end...oh well. Christopher Robin Zimmerman who still prizes having "Schaufensterpuppen" on vinyl ------------------------------ End of Kraftwerk Digest ****************************** Date: Thu, 28 Jan 93 04:00:11 CST From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu Reply-To: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (Kraftwerk) Subject: Kraftwerk Digest V1 #9 Kraftwerk Digest Thu, 28 Jan 93 Volume 1 : Issue 9 Today's Topics: Electric Music Oops! SUSCRIBE WANTED: "Showroom Dummies" EP ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 27 Jan 93 14:46:56 MET From: kraftwerk (kraftwerk mailing list) Subject: Electric Music To: kraftwerk Really-From: lupo@pool.informatik.rwth-aachen.de I have one copy of Electric Music "Crosstalk" left. The price is DM 15,00 and it's No. is 5000/2446. If there is anybody interested, e-mail me. -- Lutz ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Jan 93 11:57:03 CST From: kraftwerk (kraftwerk mailing list) Subject: Oops! To: kraftwerk Really-From: dacc@cmp-rt.music.uiuc.edu (Andrew C. Crowell) Jose Garcia asked me t whip up something about Kraftwerk's instrumentation a few days ago, and I did. I seems, though, that in my _infinite_ wisdom of dealing with elm, I returned it back to Jose (our veersion of elm does _not_ display headers, so it makes replies a hit-or-miss proposition sometimes). Jose, if you've got that, could you forward it back out to the list? Thanks! D.A.C. Crowell Computer Music Project/School of Music University of Illinois at Urbana/Champaign (dacc@cmp-rt.music.uiuc.e) [cheering coz IBM, the writer of this _awful_ AIX OS, is going ker-spooey!] ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 15:35:24 -0500 From: kraftwerk (kraftwerk mailing list) Subject: SUSCRIBE To: kraftwerk Really-From: tmm@world.std.com (Tom M Moravansky) SUSCRIBE ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 15:43:53 GMT+0100 From: kraftwerk (kraftwerk mailing list) Subject: WANTED: "Showroom Dummies" EP To: kraftwerk Really-From: Jose Garcia It seems that noboy paid attention to my previous mail regarding this subject: >I'd like to get hold of a copy of the mentioned "S. Dummies" ep: > CD: 1992 US (CEMA Special Markets S21-57899) > >I will pay for the disc plus mailing cost. I also have an spare CD to swap: > German CD single "Die Roboter" (1991) > >Jose Garcia pepeg@ctivax.uab.es Let's see if this appeals to somebody: I can also do a tape of live KW (I have the 20th anniversary tour '90 and the '91 tour as well. Of course I also have several 81 gigs, and a '75 concert, all of them on CD), if you help me to get this infamous EP! Jose Garcia pepeg@ctivax.uab.es ------------------------------ End of Kraftwerk Digest ****************************** From kraftwerk-request Thu Jan 28 12:08:49 1993 Received: by cs.uwp.edu id AA29741 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for kraftwerk-members); Thu, 28 Jan 1993 05:15:59 -0600 Message-Id: <199301281115.AA29741@cs.uwp.edu> Received: from CCUAB1 (cc.uab.es) by cs.uwp.edu with SMTP id AA29005 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for ); Thu, 28 Jan 1993 05:15:34 -0600 Received: from DECNET-MAIL (PEPEG@CTIVAX) by cc.uab.es (PMDF #2461 ) id <01GU1U7RDQ8W934RBT@cc.uab.es>; Thu, 28 Jan 1993 12:08:49 GMT+0100 Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 12:08:49 GMT+0100 From: kraftwerk (kraftwerk mailing list) To: kraftwerk Errors-To: kraftwerk-request Subject: Re: Oops! Organization: Universitat Autonoma de Barcelona X-Ps-Qualifiers: /charset=dec-mcs X-Vms-To: CCUAB::IN%"kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Status: O Really-From: Jose Garcia > Jose Garcia asked me t whip up something about Kraftwerk's >instrumentation a few days ago, and I did... >... I returned it back to Jose ... >Jose, if you've got that, could you forward it back out to the list? Thanks! Sorry Andrew, but the mail you mention didn't get to me :-( Jose Garcia pepeg@ctivax.uab.es From kraftwerk-request Thu Jan 28 06:09:08 1993 Received: by cs.uwp.edu id AA23730 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for kraftwerk-members); Thu, 28 Jan 1993 12:10:07 -0600 Message-Id: <199301281810.AA23730@cs.uwp.edu> Received: from cmp-rt.music.uiuc.edu by cs.uwp.edu with SMTP id AA23693 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for ); Thu, 28 Jan 1993 12:09:50 -0600 Received: by cmp-rt.music.uiuc.edu (AIX 2.1 2/4.03) id AA22449; Thu, 28 Jan 93 12:09:09 CST From: kraftwerk (kraftwerk mailing list) To: kraftwerk Errors-To: kraftwerk-request Subject: Re: Oops! Date: Thu, 28 Jan 93 12:09:08 CST In-Reply-To: <199301281115.AA29741@cs.uwp.edu>; from "kraftwerk mailing list" at Jan 28, 93 12:08 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL5] Status: O Really-From: dacc@cmp-rt.music.uiuc.edu (Andrew C. Crowell) > > Really-From: Jose Garcia > > > Jose Garcia asked me t whip up something about Kraftwerk's > >instrumentation a few days ago, and I did... > >... I returned it back to Jose ... > >Jose, if you've got that, could you forward it back out to the list? Thanks! > > Sorry Andrew, but the mail you mention didn't get to me :-( AARGH! The fine, AIX-driven mailing system of cmp-rt.music strikes again! I'll hash something up again, and try to have it out on the list this time in a day or two... D.A.C. Crowell Computer Music Project/School of Music University of Illinois at Urbana/Champaign (dacc@cmp-rt.music.uiuc.edu) [now that IBM's out of money, will that mean that they'll stop putting out AIX? Please? Pretty please?] From kraftwerk-request Thu Jan 28 19:00:37 1993 Received: by cs.uwp.edu id AA23131 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for kraftwerk-members); Thu, 28 Jan 1993 12:04:26 -0600 Message-Id: <199301281804.AA23131@cs.uwp.edu> Received: from CCUAB1 (cc.uab.es) by cs.uwp.edu with SMTP id AA22963 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for ); Thu, 28 Jan 1993 12:01:56 -0600 Received: from DECNET-MAIL (PEPEG@CTIVAX) by cc.uab.es (PMDF #2461 ) id <01GU28XETNTS94DWZQ@cc.uab.es>; Thu, 28 Jan 1993 19:00:37 GMT+0100 Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 19:00:37 GMT+0100 From: kraftwerk (kraftwerk mailing list) To: kraftwerk Errors-To: kraftwerk-request Subject: KW fanzine issue 3 Organization: Universitat Autonoma de Barcelona X-Ps-Qualifiers: /charset=dec-mcs X-Vms-To: IN::"kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Status: O Really-From: Jose Garcia Just received the KW fanzine: AKTIVITAT #3. Nice colour pics in front and back cover, one for each of the new members (sorry don't remember their names, or remember but not the spelling) Contents is: Intro Live 1975 (a review of the 75 Manchester Free Trade Hall gig) The 1975 UK tour (tour schedule) Collectors corner update (a round up of more world-wide rarities) News from nowhere Round up (reviews of recent releases) Collectors corner: German releases Live in Liverpool 91 Did you know? #1 A dream come true part 1 (meeting with Bartos in 1989) Small ads Collectors corner: showroom dummies (world-wide releases of the single) Did you know? #2 G-Mex, Manchester 19.6.92 (review) We programme the computer (info on the people involved with KW 'behind the scenes') Tour de France (all the edits and mixes available) Did you know? #3 KW convention 1993 (details) Outro Total: 52 pages. Format size is A5. Haven't read it yet, but looks great. Price is 2.50 UK pounds, in Europe. If you want to try it, send an IRC to: I A C 108 Cummings Park Crescent Northfield Aberdeen AB2 7AR SCOTLAND U.K. Jose Garcia pepeg@ctivax.uab.es From kraftwerk-request Thu Jan 28 10:01:05 1993 Received: by cs.uwp.edu id AA12716 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for kraftwerk-members); Thu, 28 Jan 1993 16:02:07 -0600 Message-Id: <199301282202.AA12716@cs.uwp.edu> Received: from cmp-rt.music.uiuc.edu by cs.uwp.edu with SMTP id AA12681 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for ); Thu, 28 Jan 1993 16:01:44 -0600 Received: by cmp-rt.music.uiuc.edu (AIX 2.1 2/4.03) id AA22874; Thu, 28 Jan 93 16:01:05 CST Date: Thu, 28 Jan 93 16:01:05 CST From: kraftwerk (kraftwerk mailing list) To: kraftwerk Errors-To: kraftwerk-request Subject: The article came back! Yay! Status: O Really-From: dacc@cmp-rt.music.uiuc.edu (Andrew C. Crowell) Well, no sooner than I had that post on the list, than the article that I mistakenly posted to Jose Garcia bounced (after a couple of days!) and came right back here. Sooo...beginning with Jose's question that started it all off, here 'tis... > > Hi, Andrew. > > It seems you know many things about the gear KW have been using. Could you > do an article for the mailing list, explaining what stuff have been them > using through the years, both in studio and live? That would be great! Well, a lot of this has to do with the fact that I tend to work with some rather screwy and esoteric electronic music gear myself. I can't _quite_ figure out what's being used after "Radio-activity", save for the similarity between some controllers from as far back as "Kraftwerk 1" to ones shown on the dust sleeve photo in "Computer World", but I'll give it a shot... Let's start with those first albums. I have the repackage of "Kraftwerk 1" and "K-2" in a double gatefold sleeve, replete with pictures. Some pretty conventional stuff here: Fender bass, Hagstrom guitar, Florian's rack of flutes (a very impressive array of them, in fact...the whole range of flutes!), a Farfisa "Professional Piano", an organ of indeterminate make, an Echolette echo box. Then we get into the weirdness. The rightmost panel shows what we know later to be Florian's setup. In this, there's a homebrew-looking box with pushbuttons, several other indeterminate sorts of smaller controllers, and a mixer-like device...maybe. More on that "mixer-like device" later on... "Ralf and Florian"'s rear cover possibly gives the best look at an early Kraftwerk equipment compliment. We still have Florian's flutes, but there clearly have been some changes. Ralf's setup now also contains a Minimoog, sitting to his left. The Farfisa piano is there, too, but a bunch of gizmos that I don't recognize, and which clearly are not part of a Farfisa "Professional Piano" now occupy the lid of the instrument. There's a set of bass pedals added, as well. Florian's setup has gotten even more esoteric, as well. There are now two "mixer-like devices", two large portable racks which may possibly contain the vocoder mentioned in an interview as being built for them by Sennheiser, one of the slider-pot modules from the previous setup, an Echolette box, and one other set of modules mounted in a rack. The guitar-like contraption, by the way, seems to be something of a variant on a lap steel guitar, which would be consistent with what's being played on the "Ananas Symphonie". "Autobahn" tells us little if anything visual about the gear, but inasmuch as Kraftwerk added Wolfgang Flur for percussion for this album, it'd appear that this marked the switchover from using a rhythm generator (which judging from the sound's similarity to that on Cluster's albums of the period when they used an Echolette "Drummer One" box) which was either a stock unit or used sound modules cannibalized from an existing box, to using the manually-triggered electronic drums of their subsequent albums. "Autobahn" also is the only Kraftwerk album to feature an actual guitarist, Klaus Roeder, who only appeared on this album. It's with "Radioactivity" that the curiosity about Kraftwerk's proprietal gear starts. The dust sleeve photo (which I love, btw...makes 'em look like somewhat misguided lab assistants for Werner Von Braun or something) shows Flur and new member Karl Bartos holding the sticks for their manually-triggered drumkits. These devices obviously work not on the impact- pad principle of later electronic drumkits (like the Simmons kits, or Roland's "Octapad" setup), but on contact between metal surfaces. Aside from a mike in a suspension mount, we're left with what has to be a controller. In an interview dating from around "TEE", they talked about using a controller which utilized photocells for triggering. Since this is in a plexiglass sleeve, it'd be a safe assumption that this may well be that device. No modules get shown here, no other info. Nothing. And that's the way it stays up to "Computer World". The back cover of that album shows some impressive-looking devices. Steel plates, big modular ELCO plugs...very technoid. But...turning to the dust sleeve, we find a bewildering array of equipment built into those housings. None of this equipment seems to be recognizable. We do recognize the name "Matten and Wiechers", though, as being a company that's supplied equipment to Kraftwerk on previous albums, and another name "Friend Chip", is another music equipment manufacturer in Germany. It's not 100% possible to tell if these companies did custom fabrication work for Kraftwerk, or whether their devices have simply been incorporated directly into the Klingklang setup (part of this being due to the photo itself, it being very hard to make out details in the picture). The other side of the dust sleeve incorporates a couple of "jokes", perhaps. Bartos is holding a Stylophone, a cheezy little device from the early 1970s that uses a stylus to play notes on a metal strip. Ralf is holding something which looks suspiciously like a Bontempi toy keyboard, but you can never tell if it _is_ one, or a Bontempi keyboard modified to tie into the Klingklang setup. Flur, on the other hand, gives us a _great_ look at the metal-strikeplate percussion controller he's holding. The last note I could make here is the inclusion of the name "Publison" in their acknowledgements. Publison is a French company which generally makes processing equipment. I myself have used their multiprocessor, the IM-90 "Infernal Machine". But one notable thing the IM-90 does is that it samples. It's possible that Publison is the source of their sampling gear, as Kraftwerk only began using sampling on this album. Before then, their normal manner of using existing sounds (according to an interview) was to use tape techniques to layer the sounds in. Well, as far as I can make conjectures from my experience with electronic music, that's what I come up with as far as the Kraftwerk equipment lineup. I still think it'd be wonderful if Kraftwerk would, someday, sit down and go through their Klingklang setup, as well as tell us what they did all their older stuff with. They admit to having used a large amount of equipment in those early albums. In another interview, Ralf and Florian were mentioning having used EMS VCS-3s, as well as other synths which we never see in the pictures, and also say they gradually got rid of those older synthesizers over time, to arrive at the Klingklang setup. I still wonder, though; I don't _see_ anything I recognize there, but who's to say what connects up to those big ELCO plugs, hm? We may never know what's behind the Kraftwerk sound... D.A.C. Crowell Computer Music Project/School of Music University of Illinois at Urbana/Champaign (dacc@cmp-rt.music.uiuc.edu) From kraftwerk-request Thu Jan 28 15:38:59 1993 Received: by cs.uwp.edu id AA01496 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for kraftwerk-members); Thu, 28 Jan 1993 19:39:29 -0600 Message-Id: <199301290139.AA01496@cs.uwp.edu> Received: from pg2-srv.wam.umd.edu by cs.uwp.edu with SMTP id AA01479 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for ); Thu, 28 Jan 1993 19:39:14 -0600 Received: from rac1.wam.umd.edu by pg2-srv.wam.umd.edu with SMTP id AA09380 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for ); Thu, 28 Jan 1993 20:39:01 -0500 Received: by rac1.wam.umd.edu id AA24286 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu); Thu, 28 Jan 1993 20:38:59 -0500 Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 20:38:59 -0500 From: kraftwerk (kraftwerk mailing list) To: kraftwerk Errors-To: kraftwerk-request Subject: Digest Status: O Really-From: Tina Marie LeMarier Please send me the postings as a digest and not daily. Thank you. Shane King From kraftwerk-request Thu Jan 28 09:01:47 1993 Received: by cs.uwp.edu id AA01734 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for kraftwerk-members); Thu, 28 Jan 1993 19:43:05 -0600 Message-Id: <199301290143.AA01734@cs.uwp.edu> Received: from julia.math.ucla.edu by cs.uwp.edu with SMTP id AA01712 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for ); Thu, 28 Jan 1993 19:42:50 -0600 Received: from oak.math.ucla.edu by julia.math.ucla.edu via SMTP (Sendmail 5.61/1.07) id AA10646; Thu, 28 Jan 93 17:01:48 -0800 Return-Path: Received: by oak.math.ucla.edu (Sendmail 5.61/1.07) id AA08570; Thu, 28 Jan 93 17:01:47 -0800 Date: Thu, 28 Jan 93 17:01:47 -0800 From: kraftwerk (kraftwerk mailing list) To: kraftwerk Errors-To: kraftwerk-request Subject: Re: Electric Music Status: O Really-From: Dan Clegg I would be interested in the "Crosstalk" CD, if you can accept payment in American $. Otherwise, it's just too costly to convert to foreign currencies. Thanks! --dan clegg From kraftwerk-request Thu Jan 28 16:51:30 1993 Received: by cs.uwp.edu id AA05805 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for kraftwerk-members); Thu, 28 Jan 1993 20:52:36 -0600 Message-Id: <199301290252.AA05805@cs.uwp.edu> Received: from hydra.gatech.edu by cs.uwp.edu with SMTP id AA05755 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for ); Thu, 28 Jan 1993 20:51:46 -0600 Received: by hydra.gatech.edu (5.65c/3.1) id AA22939; Thu, 28 Jan 1993 21:51:30 -0500 Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 21:51:30 -0500 From: kraftwerk (kraftwerk mailing list) To: kraftwerk Errors-To: kraftwerk-request Subject: Hello Status: O Really-From: mb20@prism.gatech.edu (BRANCH,MICHAEL B) Thanks for placing me on the list. A few questions; having been signed up today, I'm curious - how long has the list been going? I'd love to pick on any posts that I've missed. I've had a 're-discovery' of Kraftwerk over the last couple of years, not having listened to my collection in some time. I suppose that along with so many of the other giants; Neu, Can, Faust, Cluster, etc. it takes constant re-evaluation for me to fully appreciate just how extraordinarily ahead of the game they've been. I could even see an arguement that, along with James Brown, Kraftwerk are responsible for almost all modern pop music. Lord knows they've provided a nice map for techno. Anyway... how does one go about locating live recorded material by them? Michael From kraftwerk-request Fri Jan 29 12:30:32 1993 Received: by cs.uwp.edu id AA12312 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for kraftwerk-members); Fri, 29 Jan 1993 05:32:01 -0600 Message-Id: <199301291132.AA12312@cs.uwp.edu> Received: from CCUAB1 (cc.uab.es) by cs.uwp.edu with SMTP id AA11625 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for ); Fri, 29 Jan 1993 05:31:34 -0600 Received: from DECNET-MAIL (PEPEG@CTIVAX) by cc.uab.es (PMDF #2461 ) id <01GU3ABTIKWW94E154@cc.uab.es>; Fri, 29 Jan 1993 12:30:33 GMT+0100 Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1993 12:30:32 GMT+0100 From: kraftwerk (kraftwerk mailing list) To: kraftwerk Errors-To: kraftwerk-request Subject: back posts Organization: Universitat Autonoma de Barcelona X-Ps-Qualifiers: /charset=dec-mcs X-Vms-To: CCUAB::IN%"kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Status: O Really-From: Jose Garcia > Michael: > > I'd love to pick on any posts that I've missed. Are they available at cs.uwp.edu, Dave? Jose Garcia pepeg@ctivax.uab.es From kraftwerk-request Fri Jan 29 12:28:05 1993 Received: by cs.uwp.edu id AA07711 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for kraftwerk-members); Fri, 29 Jan 1993 05:29:09 -0600 Message-Id: <199301291129.AA07711@cs.uwp.edu> Received: from CCUAB1 (cc.uab.es) by cs.uwp.edu with SMTP id AA07237 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for ); Fri, 29 Jan 1993 05:28:49 -0600 Received: from DECNET-MAIL (PEPEG@CTIVAX) by cc.uab.es (PMDF #2461 ) id <01GU3A3XXTHC934R7Z@cc.uab.es>; Fri, 29 Jan 1993 12:28:05 GMT+0100 Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1993 12:28:05 GMT+0100 From: kraftwerk (kraftwerk mailing list) To: kraftwerk Errors-To: kraftwerk-request Subject: live recorded material Organization: Universitat Autonoma de Barcelona X-Ps-Qualifiers: /charset=dec-mcs X-Vms-To: CCUAB::IN%"kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Status: O Really-From: Jose Garcia Hi Michael! > Anyway... how does one go about locating live recorded material by them? There are several live CDs available, at least in Europe: 2CD rimini (live 1990 Bologna) 2CD rebuilt (live 1991 Dusseldorf, plus studio tracks, in two separate volumes) 2CD heute abend (live 1991, from several gigs in UK) 1CD hyper cerebral machine (live 1981 Italy) 1CD numbers (live 1981, Japan?, it's a Japanese boot, great sound and performance) 2CD computers in love (live 1981, ??, i don't remember the place now, Belgium?) 1CD live 1975 (don't remember the details now, good sound) ... There are many more. Jose Garcia pepeg@ctivax.uab.es From kraftwerk-request Fri Jan 29 01:54:59 1993 Received: by cs.uwp.edu id AA24093 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for kraftwerk-members); Fri, 29 Jan 1993 07:55:03 -0600 Message-Id: <199301291355.AA24093@cs.uwp.edu> Received: by cs.uwp.edu id AA24076 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for kraftwerk); Fri, 29 Jan 1993 07:54:59 -0600 From: kraftwerk (kraftwerk mailing list) To: kraftwerk Errors-To: kraftwerk-request Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1993 07:54:59 -0600 In-Reply-To: kraftwerk (kraftwerk mailing list) "back posts" (Jan 29, 12:30pm) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.3 5/22/91) Subject: Re: back posts Status: O Really-From: datta (David Datta) Archives are available on ftp.uwp.edu in the directory /pub/music/lists/kraftwerk -- -Dave datta@cs.uwp.edu "Such abuse would be illegal and is therefore unlikely." - FBI Director William Sessions From kraftwerk-request Fri Jan 29 16:25:35 1993 Received: by cs.uwp.edu id AA25630 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for kraftwerk-members); Fri, 29 Jan 1993 08:26:24 -0600 Message-Id: <199301291426.AA25630@cs.uwp.edu> Received: from efd.lth.se (oddput.efd.lth.se) by cs.uwp.edu with SMTP id AA25611 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for ); Fri, 29 Jan 1993 08:26:04 -0600 Received: from hacke-8.efd.lth.se by efd.lth.se with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #1) id m0nHwf7-0002VEC; Fri, 29 Jan 93 15:25 MET Received: by hacke-8.efd.lth.se (Smail3.1.26.7 #1) id m0nHwf3-0006LMC; Fri, 29 Jan 93 15:25 MET From: kraftwerk (kraftwerk mailing list) To: kraftwerk Errors-To: kraftwerk-request Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1993 15:25:35 +0100 X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.4 2/2/92) Subject: Mailing List Status: O Really-From: d90gl@efd.lth.se (/usr/spool/mail/d90gl) Hello! If there is a Kraftwerk mailing list please sign me up for it! Gustaf d90gl@efd.lth.se